Ok so this is a big problem for all of us??

[agri_man]

My grand father used to be a farmer, however my father did not pursue agriculture. Does this qualify me as having a farming background? As per our law who can be called as a farmer? Can any body here please throw some light on it?

Now, you see the problem is, I read here on this forum that if you are not a farmer then you cannot buy agriculture land. But at the same time, our government has very shitty schemes for farmers/entrepreneurs/corporates and is encouraging people to do dairy farming. Now to run a successful dairy, you need to have land for fodder cultivation. So basically what it means is that if you are not a farmer you cannot buy agri land which in turn means that you cannot get into dairy farming. What is the solution to this? How can young educated people with a foresight and enthusiasm get into agriculture?
Has anybody without agri background purchased agriculture land?

Your thoughts are welcome.

 

[vedha2704]

Well, it depends as to which state you intend to buy your farmland on. States like TN and AP have very relaxed rules about non-agriculturist picking up agriculture land. In states like Karnataka and Maharashtra, the rules are more stringent. We have heard of several ways of circumventing this issue, the simplest of which seems to be to register a land in the neighbouring states( without actually making a purchase) and once you have the title of agriculture attached to you, purchase the same in these states.
No doubt tricky, but like you said, the governments here make it difficult for anybody with mere passion.

 

[agri_man]

OK this is a big problem for all of us

My family is based in karnataka and my family still has some land in karnataka. But I'm not sure to whom in my family the land is registered. It means that unless i dig into my family history and get all the records i will not be able to buy more agri land.

The point i was trying to make is that if someone from another state migrated to karnataka or maharastra, why shouldn't he be allowed to buy agri land to do agriculture.

Its such a pity that our government says its doing everything to help increase farm output but at the same time is imposing these petty unrealistic restrictions.

Any thoughts on the definition of " Farmer" as per Indian law/government???

 

[vedha2704]

We had a similar problem.
1. If your family does own the land( that is your grandfather) then it should be possible(not easy) to create a family tree and thereby state that by sheer inheritance- you are a farmer. But for that, you will need supporting documents such as patta and others containing your name.

2. Anybody is eligible to buy a land in karnataka( as long as he/she is not an NRI) as long as they prove their agriculture status.

3.Petty nervertheless!

4.By law- a farmer is somebody who has a piece of agriculture land on paper- this is with a few sub clauses like, income from other sources cannot be more than 2 lakh per annum and so forth. Very difficult becoming a farmer by the book.
Suggest you finalise on a land and have a rural lawyer do your paper work for you. It worked for us.

 

[agri_man]

Vedha, Thanks for your replies. Did you have issues in karnataka? Or was it some other state? How long did you take you to sort out the issue and register your land??

Unfortunately, There is no way i can show an income of less than 2 lakhs PA unless i quit my job.(which is eventually what im planning to do)

 

[k1jatrophaoils]

Vedha, Thanks for your replies. Did you have issues in karnataka? Or was it some other state? How long did you take you to sort out the issue and register your land??

Unfortunately, There is no way i can show an income of less than 2 lakhs PA unless i quit my job.(which is eventually what im planning to do)

Please do not do that.

You shall avoid buying lands mainly owned by ST/SCs or else you can always a legitimate farmer once you are issued a RTC no matter where you own an agricultural land in India.

The real farming is a kind of dedicative approach towards useful farming that is all which has certain proof of agricultural produce.
Its all a gamble or stage managed to make money and that is why revenue officials put some hurdles for the issue of a new RTC.
There are loopholes in this state provided you use a correct officer to make a submission.
You are seeking permission and not any convesrion and i am sure a honest DC should deliver at any point of time.

finally, you always have a black law in this country I mean you just make a lease deed for 99 years its OK for states like Kar natak.
While many MNCs make inroads into farming why not you sir?
Goodluck.

Bhadrinath.

 

[agri_man]

Bhadrinath,

Thanks a lot for your reply. So you are essentially saying that instead of buying land, I could lease it for a certain period of time??? Sounds like a very good option.
But the problem i see here is that, Suppose i lease land for 20 years or so then the lease amount i would pay will be higher than today's rent for that same piece of land coz money has time value. 10 rupees today will be more valuable tomorrow. Also, land is an asset that is scare. Most land owners would be reluctant to lease land for such long periods. I routinely come across people who wish to lease their land for 3-5 years. It takes time to build a business, usually 3 years to even breakeven in ventures like dariy farming. In such cases, you are at the mercy of land owners when the lease gets over after 3 years.

Please do not do that.

You shall avoid buying lands mainly owned by ST/SCs or else you can always a legitimate farmer once you are issued a RTC no matter where you own an agricultural land in India.

The real farming is a kind of dedicative approach towards useful farming that is all which has certain proof of agricultural produce.
Its all a gamble or stage managed to make money and that is why revenue officials put some hurdles for the issue of a new RTC.
There are loopholes in this state provided you use a correct officer to make a submission.
You are seeking permission and not any convesrion and i am sure a honest DC should deliver at any point of time.

finally, you always have a black law in this country I mean you just make a lease deed for 99 years its OK for states like Kar natak.
While many MNCs make inroads into farming why not you sir?
Goodluck.

Bhadrinath.

 

[k1jatrophaoils]

land revenue act in Karnataka

Dear friend!

I just suggested you a exit route to hold your job first.Otherwise my mindset is not to impose any particular option to source you a agri land.

KIADB do acquire land only to facilitate people from Tamilnad and Gujarat to start Dairy here please note.
I am sure that you are looking your source of income on the basis of IT returns.

Plenty of our politicians in fact play with this particular card and I am sure that you may get a permission from the AC of the area where the land is surveyed.

You shall apply with an undertaking that the bought land will not be converted commercially or industrially.

I can cite plenty of lands being awarded to various Maths and Ghosalas and if its for Dairy there is always a concedation.
Let me knnow where are you looking a land so that I shall help you to get the AC permission with my skills.

Bhadrinath.

 

[niksnarayana]

In todays India, sadly money makes everything possible. I suggest if you are not a very strong Anna Hazare supporter, you go and talk to your local VA and work out with him a solution for your predicament. He is the key to the taluk office and the tehsildar. Those guys are just shameless, you can ask them how much money it will cost and he will have a quotation ready. There will be some expense involved to get paperwork and other bribes, well you just have to negotiate it through and move on. Any paperwork can be generated out of thin air in our country, especially karnataka.
Ultimately, your goal is to get into dairy farming, or is it changing the country?
Your choice.

Leasing land is another option for growing fodder, it doesnt call for high initial investment and paperwork is not and issue.
Another suggestion for fodder, you can look at silage as an alternative, you can always go out and purchase maize and stock it for 6 months or more. Expense is a bit more, but you can compensate in concentrates savings. So you wont need large land area, just enough for your cow shed and storage.

Good luck.
Nikhil

 

[agri_man]

Nikhil,

Thanks very much. I will keep to keep silent on the corruptions issues for the time being

I have given "silage" a few thoughts and below are the questions that routinely come up:

-Do you get good silage when you really need it?
-What are the best places to source it from?
-Availibility round the year?
-Also How much more expensive is it as compared to growing your own green fodder ??

Apart from the above the one thing that strike me the most is the quality of the silage. From what i know ( courtesy google and other sources) Silages have to be handled with care i.e they have to be stored in a particular way so that they retain atleast 50-60% of the moisture and also have to ensure that there is not too much fermentation of the crop i.e limited microbial growth.

What are your personal thoughts? Thanks in advance

In todays India, sadly money makes everything possible. I suggest if you are not a very strong Anna Hazare supporter, you go and talk to your local VA and work out with him a solution for your predicament. He is the key to the taluk office and the tehsildar. Those guys are just shameless, you can ask them how much money it will cost and he will have a quotation ready. There will be some expense involved to get paperwork and other bribes, well you just have to negotiate it through and move on. Any paperwork can be generated out of thin air in our country, especially karnataka.
Ultimately, your goal is to get into dairy farming, or is it changing the country?
Your choice.

Leasing land is another option for growing fodder, it doesnt call for high initial investment and paperwork is not and issue.
Another suggestion for fodder, you can look at silage as an alternative, you can always go out and purchase maize and stock it for 6 months or more. Expense is a bit more, but you can compensate in concentrates savings. So you wont need large land area, just enough for your cow shed and storage.

Good luck.
Nikhil

 

[SWAMY1807]

Dear Agriman you informing in your reply to Vedha i.e
My family is based in karnataka and my family still has some land in karnataka. But I'm not sure to whom in my family the land is registered. It means that unless i dig into my family history and get all the records I i will not be able to buy more agri land.

From the above statement, though you have way to prove yourself as Farmer then why you worrying? Pls try to find your past for your better feature. It means unless you dig your past history how can you decide your feature? Pls try to know yourself to go ahead as you desired. There is no point in raising all un wanted issues. Solution is within you. Then you can realize the definition of " Farmer" as per Indian law/government???
All the best.
SWAMY

 

[agri_man]

Dear Swamy,

Thanks for your thoughts. The land we have is ancestral which have been passed on from generations. That said, I'm not certain if the land is indeed registered to anyone at all. Will have to check with family though. But still the question persists. Does only having a registered piece of land qualify you as a farmer? What about countless people who just inherit land in remote places that are never registered but they still farm on it?? Does it mean they are not farmers just because they don't have registered land??

These are not "Un-wanted" issues as you would like to call. These are issues that plague millions of people in india who get caught up in bureaucratic mess. This forum is intended for people like you and me to interact so we can find solutions related to agriculture of which "problems related to land owning" become an integral part. For someone like me, I may eventually find a way to beat the system and get a piece of land. What about the less privileged??


I quite liked Vedha's suggestions via my PM which certainly feels more like the approach to take. Of course, i will be very happy for all your invaluable suggestions to make it a success for me and many more like me.

Keep the "Suggestions" coming Mr. Swamy.

Thanks

Dear Agriman you informing in your reply to Vedha i.e
My family is based in karnataka and my family still has some land in karnataka. But I'm not sure to whom in my family the land is registered. It means that unless i dig into my family history and get all the records I i will not be able to buy more agri land.

From the above statement, though you have way to prove yourself as Farmer then why you worrying? Pls try to find your past for your better feature. It means unless you dig your past history how can you decide your feature? Pls try to know yourself to go ahead as you desired. There is no point in raising all un wanted issues. Solution is within you. Then you can realize the definition of " Farmer" as per Indian law/government???
All the best.
SWAMY

 

[niksnarayana]

-Do you get good silage when you really need it? - You dont get silage, you make silage.
-What are the best places to source it from? - Same as above, you purchase maize and make it yourself, I dont know anyone who is selling it.
-Availibility round the year? - Yes. Life if stored properly is at least 6 months.
-Also How much more expensive is it as compared to growing your own green fodder ?? - It will cost you approx. Rs. 2-2.50 per kg. But consider this,
1. It is better in protien
2. It is partially fermented, so cow can digest easily
3. Cost savings on day to day fodder harvesting.
4. Moisture content is less than green fodder, so you dont have to feed more than 20-25 kgs.

As for silage getting spoilt, even if you grow your own fodder, it requires good care and maintenance. Otherwise it wont give you expected yields and in some cases totally fail. So anything you do requires attention to detail, especially when it comes to dealing with cows.

Abroad, dairy owners make silage for 5000 cows to last for 6 months due to winter snow season.
At the rate of 25 kg per cow total quantity is 22,500,000 kgs. So if they can do it, why not us. And if they are doing it and succeeding, then why not us.

Nikhil

 

[agri_man]

Nikhil,

Thanks for your inputs. Appreciate it. I reason i asked where you get silage is because i dont want to make it. I would rather pay a bit more and buy it.

Secondly, feeding fermented silage to cows as a main diet is detrimental to their health over a long period of time. You will see that farmers in the US get rid of cows after 3 lactations. The internet is so full of reads on how damaging a corn diet can be on dairy/beef cows. Personally, I would like grass fed cows against corn fed cows.

Thirdly, The whole ideas of growing your own fodder is to cut costs? Costs of daily harvesting of green fodder as compared to making your silage is more or less the same. You would still need to grow your own maize and would need capital costs for building silo pits etc etc. Ballpark, I estimate the cost would be same.

Fourthly, If you were to grow your own corn to make silage, you still have to care for the harvest as its more prone to pests as compared to other fodder types for ex say Napier which means you have to use a tonne of pesticide on the crops which eventually end up in your cows stomach.

While, I agree with you that silage can be a good substitute for those farmers who do not have access to other types of fodder. I would personally not look at it as much or as a last resort.
Nikhil, Please appreciate that my intention here is to make a healthy discussion so we can all benefit from it and not to argue or show someone in poor light. I hope you will contribute more of your thoughts .

Also, Farmers in the west feed their cows extremely high protein diet and follow scientific farming methods. Wish we did the same. Maybe guys like you and me can? Are you a dairy farmer?

Rgds

-Do you get good silage when you really need it? - You dont get silage, you make silage.
-What are the best places to source it from? - Same as above, you purchase maize and make it yourself, I dont know anyone who is selling it.
-Availibility round the year? - Yes. Life if stored properly is at least 6 months.
-Also How much more expensive is it as compared to growing your own green fodder ?? - It will cost you approx. Rs. 2-2.50 per kg. But consider this,
1. It is better in protien
2. It is partially fermented, so cow can digest easily
3. Cost savings on day to day fodder harvesting.
4. Moisture content is less than green fodder, so you dont have to feed more than 20-25 kgs.

As for silage getting spoilt, even if you grow your own fodder, it requires good care and maintenance. Otherwise it wont give you expected yields and in some cases totally fail. So anything you do requires attention to detail, especially when it comes to dealing with cows.

Abroad, dairy owners make silage for 5000 cows to last for 6 months due to winter snow season.
At the rate of 25 kg per cow total quantity is 22,500,000 kgs. So if they can do it, why not us. And if they are doing it and succeeding, then why not us.

Nikhil